10.5 Inner Excellence/ACT: EXTRA: RFT with Rob

[00:00:00] I hope you liked the two segments of Extra Material recorded several months ago with my

[00:00:05] friend and audio engineer Rob Goodnight who doesn't have any medical or clinical experience

[00:00:12] but is a good sounding board for discussing some of the concepts in a very down to earth

[00:00:18] way.

[00:00:19] The first segment revolves around relational frame theory, the theory of mind behind

[00:00:24] act therapy, but we take several detours throughout.

[00:00:27] I will warn you that it is a little bit more laid back and conversational and there's a

[00:00:33] decent amount of cursing embedded within it.

[00:00:35] Let me know if you like it.

[00:00:39] Somebody get this guy some help.

[00:00:48] So RFT is a theory behind acceptance and commitment therapy.

[00:00:54] That is a specific set of processes.

[00:00:57] They're less direct than something like cognitive behavioral therapy where it's okay Rob tell

[00:01:03] me what distressing thoughts you've had and let's figure out how that distressing thought

[00:01:09] interacts with how you feel emotionally and then let's figure out how that emotional

[00:01:14] feeling interacts with your behaviors and how all three of these things play off

[00:01:18] of each other.

[00:01:20] This is more focusing on different processes of understanding how your mind works and what

[00:01:27] it's doing and implementing a process instead of a directive goal oriented treatment act

[00:01:37] is actually based on an underlying theory of how the mind works.

[00:01:44] It basically takes classic behavioral theory, a guy named B.F.

[00:01:48] Skinner who was credited with a lot of advances in terms of behavioral psychology Pavlov's

[00:01:56] dogs.

[00:01:58] So Skinner kind of expanded on that work and talked a lot about role of language in

[00:02:03] our lives.

[00:02:05] Acceptance and commitment therapy and the underlying relational frame theory are an extension

[00:02:10] of classic behavioral theory because there's a lot of holes in terms of how our brains

[00:02:18] or our minds process language.

[00:02:22] The divergence from classical behavioral theory is that this doesn't just happen with

[00:02:30] directly learned or experienced things.

[00:02:34] The human mind and the human internal language center goes so far above and beyond that.

[00:02:41] And this theory at its absolute most extreme end would be I walk into a room there are

[00:02:47] hundreds to thousands of objects.

[00:02:50] I may be exposed to additional nonverbal ideas or your body language and I'm processing

[00:02:57] them on some level subconsciously but I'm not consciously making note of every object

[00:03:03] or every exact thing that I experience.

[00:03:06] The initial idea was I've got this mechanism inside my skull that is just relating all

[00:03:12] these things together in the background of my life like to the nth degree on this massively

[00:03:19] exponential basis.

[00:03:20] For me initially when I heard it my mind went way outside of just like language and

[00:03:26] how we interpret that people with like trauma making poor decisions and they might

[00:03:33] not really know why they're making decisions like that and it could just be as deeply

[00:03:36] reared to maybe you're sexually assaulted so now you treat women poorly and you don't

[00:03:42] really know why or even consciously do that.

[00:03:45] And the fact that based on experiences or even just based on ways that you think about

[00:03:52] things or things you've been told by other people creating these intrinsic or implicit

[00:03:58] rules for yourself that maybe served you well in that particular experience but if they're

[00:04:07] just locked into this subconscious realm then you find yourself following these same rules.

[00:04:13] The very relevant example is like for you and me crying how were you taught to feel about

[00:04:19] being a man and crying in public?

[00:04:21] Oh yeah never cried through school I remember priding myself I never cried in front of

[00:04:25] anybody once in school I actually don't know that I've ever cried in public either but not

[00:04:30] because I haven't wanted to sometimes but there's that stigma of a rule like shove it deep down

[00:04:36] you don't cry.

[00:04:37] You may be following that kind of rule based on being told that by society being told

[00:04:44] that by your parents that if you do cry what are some of the first thoughts that

[00:04:50] you have about crying?

[00:04:51] It's embarrassment yeah.

[00:04:53] You're not even thinking about the reason why you're crying you're just thinking I'm

[00:04:57] so ashamed right now.

[00:04:58] I'm a man and I'm crying as opposed to hey yeah that seems like a good reason to cry

[00:05:05] your dog just died or you failed this exam that you worked really hard to try to pass

[00:05:12] and you also miss out on the actual experience itself.

[00:05:16] I've got a newborn at home and you've got to buy all these different gadgets and

[00:05:21] widgets because that's what good parents do societal rule you have somebody come up

[00:05:26] hey I got this new baby Jorn or little rocker and it's awesome like he loves it it's the

[00:05:33] greatest thing ever.

[00:05:35] That's all that somebody says to you right but as humans that relational ability that

[00:05:41] we have immediately you also hear you're a good parent I don't have that therefore

[00:05:50] I am a bad parent I am not doing enough for my child.

[00:05:54] Yep it's interesting and it could ruin your fucking day or it could cause you to go buy

[00:05:59] something that you never needed in the first place.

[00:06:03] That your kid will never even fucking remember.

[00:06:05] But that is such a perfect example another example of what can go on behind the curtains

[00:06:10] if you will of your own mind if you come to meet me after work for a beer and you

[00:06:16] tell me that you had this awesome thing that happened to you that day I've got to be able

[00:06:21] to realize that my mind is going to recognize that you having this awesome experience also

[00:06:28] means that I didn't have that awesome experience.

[00:06:31] Yep and therefore I missed out on something in my mind is like well what are you going

[00:06:36] to do to have an awesome experience like Rob had none of that is going to be discussed

[00:06:40] openly and you probably won't even consciously put that together but it's there.

[00:06:44] Now you can imagine that there's probably a large subset of the population never considering

[00:06:50] that they have a mind or thinking about the fact that it acts differently than the voice

[00:06:56] that I'm using externally.

[00:06:59] Let me recognize my thoughts let me accept that I'm going to have a bunch of thoughts

[00:07:05] let me recognize this difference between me and my mind let me engage in this present

[00:07:11] moment as much as I possibly can let me at certain times try to step back and objectively

[00:07:19] evaluate this mind conscious self relationship.

[00:07:23] It's more or less almost like homework to give somebody like look keep this idea in mind

[00:07:27] just be aware of how certain things make you feel and something that somebody's

[00:07:33] almost got to like work through themselves unless they're just pouring every detail

[00:07:37] of their life into you and you're able to make correlation somehow.

[00:07:41] You're absolutely right in terms of the person has to be able to work some things out for

[00:07:46] themselves because the only person that is privy to what's going on in your mind

[00:07:52] is you you can let me in on some things but I've probably asked at least a thousand patients

[00:07:57] at this point would you feel comfortable saying out loud everything that pops into

[00:08:02] your head?

[00:08:03] Fuck no dude.

[00:08:05] I mean I've never had somebody say yes to that question.

[00:08:09] We have all kinds of thoughts and processes and when you talk about language you've got

[00:08:15] to include that language inside of your head.

[00:08:19] The theory as a whole really revolves around language and the impact that it has not

[00:08:24] only how it explains a lot of evolutionary things why we're at the top of the food

[00:08:29] chain and how we progress so rapidly to where we are technologically but it also gives you

[00:08:37] an idea of why we deal with all the problems that we deal with.

[00:08:42] You've got this machine inside of your brain and that's one of the biggest most important

[00:08:47] and easiest places to start is to separate out.

[00:08:51] You've got a brain and you've got your conscious self that is right here right now

[00:08:56] and you are always the eye in your life and you're always living in this moment or each

[00:09:01] moment of your life but then you've got this separate entity this machine it's like a

[00:09:07] computer that has this crazy ability to relate all of these different things together in

[00:09:14] different ways so that you are ready at the drop of a hat to be able to answer a

[00:09:20] random question relating like how is this pen the predecessor of this cop or there's all

[00:09:26] different kinds of relations but you're able to come up with a very logical and reasonable

[00:09:31] response even though you've never been asked that question.

[00:09:35] Yeah so the brain is just archiving everything and just making it to matches like we talked

[00:09:41] about how it's like a fear based mechanism it wants to make sure you're making the

[00:09:46] right choices so it's using the only information it knows for you to make decisions.

[00:09:53] Exactly example I love to use if you have a headache and you go type into Google headache

[00:09:58] causes yeah it could be something as simple as dehydration but what do you think your

[00:10:04] mind is going to jump to when you look at that Google search brain tumors going to

[00:10:08] be on the list.

[00:10:10] Your mind comes up with as many possible or potential problems and solutions to those

[00:10:17] problems that it can and that leaves the conscious you left to deal with the fallout knowing

[00:10:23] that your headache could be a brain tumor.

[00:10:27] Because your mind is able to conjure that up as a possibility when it comes to the

[00:10:33] things that your mind wants to send to you consciously well it's certainly going

[00:10:38] to focus more on this really serious or severe possibility that could threaten your existence

[00:10:45] or threaten your survival over it just being dehydration.

[00:10:50] Yeah it makes sense.

[00:10:52] Your mind is trying to create two separate lists at all times what is everything that

[00:10:59] could possibly hurt me that I should consider avoiding and what is everything that I have

[00:11:06] not done in my life that I should be doing or should do in the future both of which are

[00:11:13] in effort to increase your chances of surviving.

[00:11:18] But you can see how it could get really overwhelming for us.

[00:11:24] Yeah especially with just the expansion of information out there and now we've got

[00:11:30] so much that we can consume and relate to and it's like it could really cripple a lot of people.

[00:11:36] Just think about the brain changes that had to occur throughout evolution from going with

[00:11:42] these more elongated skulls to bigger brains and more folds in the brain and the amount

[00:11:49] of time that took to get to where we are now and the amount of information that was

[00:11:55] at anybody's disposal in 1950 or in 5000 BC when you're living in a cave there's only

[00:12:03] so many possibilities that you could be aware of because there's just only so much information

[00:12:08] out there but once the telephone and radio and especially now the internet has been

[00:12:16] created holy shit we're exposed to more information probably in a 24 hour period than a lot

[00:12:24] of our ancestors were within the frame of their entire life.

[00:12:28] Yeah absolutely.

[00:12:30] You know that there are starving people across the world, there's all these injustices everywhere

[00:12:35] and there's undoubtedly a part of you that wants to do something about it not just because

[00:12:41] you have some moral sense or anything like that but like evolutionarily because if

[00:12:46] you help feed all the starving children the rest of society is going to want to

[00:12:51] build you up and ensure that you continue to survive.

[00:12:54] Yeah it's too much now.

[00:12:55] I guess we're in a period where we'll either adapt and just become capable of dealing

[00:13:01] with this many things at once at this wide of a spectrum.

[00:13:04] Yeah, I thought that was a really cool idea how 200-300 years ago you had your family

[00:13:10] and maybe you were in some little fucking town or something and that was like as vast

[00:13:17] as your knowledge really was of everything and you could look at like our rise in mental

[00:13:24] health and like correlate it to technology almost.

[00:13:29] Yeah and I think societally we dance around that point, we love to blame social media which

[00:13:34] definitely when you're talking about your ability to relate things together included

[00:13:40] in that is this ability to compare yourself to anybody and anything and everything that

[00:13:46] you could possibly imagine so that even when you have the best day ever well there's always

[00:13:52] somebody who had a better day.

[00:13:54] But you absolutely hit the nail on the head we have the highest rate of drug overdose

[00:13:58] that we've ever had especially in the US but also worldwide we're trying to get away

[00:14:03] from our own minds, from these problem generators because you can imagine living in a cave

[00:14:10] you know maybe you see certain tracks outside of your cave your mind starts to

[00:14:14] go what could that be? That could be another human or that could be a bear or this could

[00:14:20] be something that is trying to hunt me or this could be something that was just passing by.

[00:14:25] There's only so many possibilities that you could have been aware of because you're

[00:14:30] not aware of what you're not aware of.

[00:14:32] Yeah it's wild you just really got a question why you react to everything oh I got really

[00:14:39] mad this day because of this well why? I think just with this theory in mind you're

[00:14:45] going to expand your reasons why.

[00:14:47] I feel like that is the kind of goal of a lot of therapies that we do especially like

[00:14:53] psychodynamic or which is a branch of Freudian lay on the couch and freely associate and

[00:15:00] everything's about sexual urges but I feel like a lot of these other therapies they're

[00:15:05] trying to find the answer why do I react like this in this situation what makes this therapy

[00:15:11] different is more of a hey I'm never going to fully understand why I react this way because

[00:15:17] there are so many different factors that go into it if my dad says you should always

[00:15:24] do as you're told and that is a constant theme in my childhood that was an experience

[00:15:29] I directly had with my father but later on down the road when I see other people in that

[00:15:36] same light I may still be following that rule of do as you're told yeah even in situations

[00:15:42] where it's not appropriate and especially if I'm not aware that I have that tendency.

[00:15:48] Yeah so it's good you just had to like probably reflect and dig on yourself a little bit

[00:15:53] and to put that together.

[00:15:54] Yeah and for me personally it's probably the opposite it started out as do as you're

[00:15:58] told and then I became a teenager and again you're constantly being influenced by everyone

[00:16:05] and everything around you so it's not like you are just following that one rule do as

[00:16:11] you're told unless it continues to be reinforced over and over again which can happen with

[00:16:17] some of the rules that we make for ourselves but then when I got into adolescence.

[00:16:22] Then you resented it went opposite way.

[00:16:24] Exactly.

[00:16:25] But it's the same idea.

[00:16:26] I'm still reacting to but in the opposite way now when I've worked with attending psychiatrist

[00:16:33] or other fully trained doctors throughout my training.

[00:16:38] I started to notice and I didn't start to notice these things until I really dove in

[00:16:44] personally into RFT and act therapy but I started to notice like hey you have this

[00:16:49] reaction with these authority figures when you get a sense that they aren't taking you

[00:16:57] seriously or they don't believe what you're telling them and you have this reaction that

[00:17:04] goes above and beyond this relationship you have with this other psychiatrist that really

[00:17:10] is grappling onto come on dad just tell me I'm good enough tell me you respect my ideas

[00:17:16] and you respect me and yeah that's a little bit more kind of psychodynamic oriented but

[00:17:21] this theory this RFT act stuff led to a merging of all these different types of therapies it

[00:17:29] definitely talks about CBT concepts like your thoughts driving your feelings driving your

[00:17:34] behaviors and all of those things influencing Chether it delves into psychodynamic which

[00:17:40] is the classic let's lay down on the couch and tell me about your childhood tell me

[00:17:45] about your relationship with your parents which again is super important to understanding

[00:17:50] yourself but this takes like a little bit of a step back from yourself approach look

[00:17:57] at yourself from an outside perspective not just look at your conscious self look at

[00:18:02] your mind at the same time see what your mind is doing in response to what's going on

[00:18:08] in your conscious experience but all from like a removed perspective yeah which it's

[00:18:14] hard to do absolutely especially in the moment if something's piss me off I'm not fucking

[00:18:22] taking the step out yeah I'm right there with you that's fair that's being a human but it's

[00:18:28] being willing to engage in that little discussion with yourself later on yeah and bring that

[00:18:33] to maybe next time you're in that situation you're mindful of it we're making these

[00:18:37] decisions and we're thinking it's based on these things that we can see but in reality

[00:18:43] we're digging from places that we don't even know we are and making them exactly okay absolutely

[00:18:49] that process will always be happening throughout the rest of your life no matter how much

[00:18:54] act therapy you do it's just becoming aware of it getting that click of understanding

[00:19:00] takes a little bit of the sting off of your thoughts off of your feelings it allows

[00:19:06] you to experience those negative things into a little bit lesser degree yeah because

[00:19:12] our reason isn't all the way known and that's okay exactly accepting a lack of

[00:19:19] understanding I mean what would you estimate of all the things to know how much do we

[00:19:24] know what percent yeah how could you ever how could you ever answer that question

[00:19:28] yet as a society we really struggle with that we need answers I need to know if

[00:19:33] every one of my actions is good or it's bad is this right is this wrong

[00:19:41] probably all of it's a little bit of both it is what it is I remember growing up and

[00:19:45] like really struggling when I started to learn a little bit more about space and

[00:19:49] just how massive the universe is yeah dude I'm even like thinking about that

[00:19:53] shit drives me nuts it drove me nuts for a long time I think I actively

[00:19:59] disengage from it because it was such an overwhelming feeling of just uncertainty

[00:20:06] yeah same with religion not to step on anybody's toes people should be able to

[00:20:10] believe whatever they want but it just seems a little crazy to think that we've

[00:20:16] got it all figured out that's exactly to the point I just made we have the

[00:20:20] right religion we figured it out but those people didn't figure it out yeah

[00:20:26] it's almost egotistical in a way to believe anything as crazy as it sounds

[00:20:32] like if you really believe anything like you don't even know what you're ruling out

[00:20:36] we don't know what we don't know that is one of the biggest themes of my disdain

[00:20:42] for this world is just this we've got to know the answer yes I would love to know

[00:20:49] as many answers as possible but like you said even the answers that I know

[00:20:53] deep down I'm like do I really know that yeah we have to create order in

[00:20:59] our world we've got to have some sort of order for things or else we would just be

[00:21:04] way too overwhelmed so I get that but the pendulum has swung way too far in the

[00:21:09] direction of having to have order in everything that we do which is why you

[00:21:14] see so many people out there with such rigid belief systems that are not open

[00:21:20] in any way to change because they're trying to make order of life they

[00:21:25] need to know that this is the right way to be and this is the wrong way to be

[00:21:30] which I think is part of all of our internal struggle dark matter is the

[00:21:34] example I love we take any mass anywhere and you take out every different

[00:21:39] molecule or every different component and compare it to the weight of the entire

[00:21:44] mass there's always a discrepancy we know now that there are these other

[00:21:49] particles antimatter particles that are much more prominent in space but

[00:21:55] they exist everywhere the glue that holds the universe together does that offer

[00:21:59] more explanation for how physically things work in our universe is that

[00:22:07] process happening in our brains to some degree or some level when I was talking

[00:22:12] to you about glial cells in your brain how you only use 10% of your brain

[00:22:17] that just comes from the fact that neurons comprise 10% of the cells in

[00:22:22] your brain and we can see how neurons are connected to one another so neurons

[00:22:28] gained all this popularity is explaining how the brain works because

[00:22:32] there's highways laid out right we can see a process go from your visual

[00:22:36] cortex to your frontal cortex and vice versa and so we neglected the other

[00:22:41] 90% which are glial cells we cannot see what happens between those we know

[00:22:47] that their electrical impulses waves of calcium depolarization that

[00:22:52] project to different lobes of the brain etc etc but because we focus on the

[00:22:57] other 10% that we can see and we know we neglected this this could help

[00:23:02] explain the collective unconscious or give us a little bit more insight into

[00:23:07] dark matter yet as a society we really struggle with uncertainty there is

[00:23:12] definitely a noticeable objective difference between your conscious

[00:23:18] and what we refer to as the mind or when your inner voice is activated and

[00:23:26] what it's doing they work separately from each other and there is some

[00:23:31] overlap when you're partially consciously engaged but you're not fully

[00:23:36] engaged you might get little tidbits of information from your mind but then

[00:23:41] when you shut off conscious engagement all the sudden this other entity

[00:23:44] totally takes over what you'll notice if you're listening to this actively in an

[00:23:49] engaged way or me right now sitting here talking to you that is the conscious

[00:23:54] me talking to the conscious you my inner voice is silenced it doesn't bother

[00:23:59] me when I'm not aware of it you're consciously engaged in the eye here

[00:24:03] now you're in this moment you're being present to use a slightly cool

[00:24:08] phraseology there and you're not aware of your mind but you and I both

[00:24:14] just stop talking and just sit here in silence and there's not a bunch of TV

[00:24:19] screen or things for us to watch and engage with your mind will start to get

[00:24:24] louder and louder yeah which is why when do most people become the most aware

[00:24:30] of their mind throughout the day when you lay down a good bed yeah I've never

[00:24:34] thought about that but as soon as there's nothing really to engage with

[00:24:38] in the present that's immediately boom it sounds like anytime you start

[00:24:43] putting it in the past or the future that's your little brain computer working

[00:24:48] yeah that's your mind and I've never thought about it as two separate entities

[00:24:52] before I think that's interesting too and what happens when Rob goes to sleep

[00:24:56] and I start talking to you let's say you're in a deep slumber is conscious

[00:25:00] Rob gonna respond no but what is going on as you're sleeping you're

[00:25:04] dreaming your mind is still trying to process all this fucking information

[00:25:11] trying to offload some of this stuff but my point here is that your mind is active

[00:25:15] because you're not there's no way around that because you gotta go to sleep

[00:25:19] yeah so I would bet 50% of my patients at least have some problem with sleep

[00:25:25] I just lay down at bed I can't get my brain to shut off

[00:25:29] it's actually the fact that you're just now aware of

[00:25:33] what your mind is has been doing all day

[00:25:36] yeah even when you're consciously engaged in the background subconsciously

[00:25:39] unconsciously your mind is doing these processes that's wild

[00:25:44] that kind of makes sense why I use white noise to fall asleep sometimes

[00:25:48] it's almost like conversation or like sleeping with the TV on it do you have

[00:25:51] anxiety about how shitty the next day is gonna be because you're not

[00:25:55] sleeping yeah sometimes that will be the thing that keeps me up

[00:25:59] yeah fuck I'm still up same here definitely used to be a lot worse

[00:26:02] especially in residency knowing that I had to be at work at 6 30 yeah it's

[00:26:08] already midnight that means I got to get up at 5 45 oh my gosh I'm still not asleep

[00:26:13] tomorrow's gonna suck I'm not gonna make it but when I started knowing that hey

[00:26:19] this is what's going on your mind is active because you're not there's no

[00:26:23] way around that because you gotta go to sleep you just shut it out a little

[00:26:26] better you can correct your mind too when you really focus on the

[00:26:31] recognition the awareness of what thoughts you're having you can then

[00:26:35] start to correct your mind like your mind may say you're not gonna make it

[00:26:40] tomorrow how are you gonna do your job and you come back with oh that's right

[00:26:45] I've gone down this road seven hundred times in my life do I function

[00:26:51] perfectly no but I make it this thought that I'm having is really just

[00:26:57] perpetuating my insomnia and it's not even true I could probably sleep two

[00:27:02] hours and go to work in find a way to function really just any form of

[00:27:08] worrying whatsoever you could say the same about it you either are worrying

[00:27:13] about something that you don't know the outcome to that is just a complete

[00:27:16] waste of time or doing what you did where oh I know the outcome this is

[00:27:22] gonna suck just don't worry about it just get there and then it sucks

[00:27:26] you're already sitting there you're having a hard time sleeping accept it

[00:27:31] accept that this process is going on let's start to think about your

[00:27:35] thoughts in a different way and naturally you are then going to consciously

[00:27:40] react to your mind or your thoughts about your insomnia in a different

[00:27:45] way yeah it's not gonna be as good of a day on four hours of sleep as it

[00:27:50] would be on seven hours of sleep but the thought is an over exaggeration

[00:27:56] again it's not because your mind hates you like some people might believe

[00:27:59] it wants you to be aware of it but ultimately the conscious you is the

[00:28:04] one that lives your life you get to decide what you do with the

[00:28:08] information that your mind makes available to you yeah I was trying to

[00:28:14] buy a couch all last week I fucking got manic because I bought this couch

[00:28:21] it came here it was huge took up too much space sent it back I was like I'm

[00:28:26] not fucking this up again I spent three days going through Google Wayfarer

[00:28:33] every outlet looking at every single couch and then I picked out another

[00:28:37] one and now I fucking hate it and it's a huge problem with me with

[00:28:43] everything decision-making and I overthink and overanalyze everything you're

[00:28:49] experiencing the same thing that I think all of us are experiencing that have

[00:28:54] functioning minds yet we've never societally really talked about how to

[00:29:00] deal with it when have you ever taken a class in your upbringing that had to

[00:29:04] do with dealing with your own thoughts and your own emotions outside of

[00:29:08] maybe some like upper-level psychology courses yeah never it's crazy to me

[00:29:14] because how in the world are we supposed to know how to deal with our

[00:29:16] thoughts and our emotions we don't talk about it it's this taboo thing that if

[00:29:22] you talk about your mind and if you really let everybody know what's on your

[00:29:26] mind they're gonna think I'm crazy actually they're gonna know I'm

[00:29:30] crazy yeah but we're all going through the same thing all of us make

[00:29:34] decisions and yes some of us are blindly able to commit to a decision more

[00:29:39] of a reactionary thing of I'm just gonna ignore suppress what my mind is doing

[00:29:44] because I can't deal with that in decision feeling yeah so just pick

[00:29:50] something and go but we're all living within this same construct of having a

[00:29:55] mind that is constantly questioning and a conscious self that is dealing

[00:30:00] with the consequences and if you don't recognize that then yes I understand

[00:30:05] why people feel crazy but now I can externalize that as hey this is my

[00:30:10] supercomputer in my head that's going a little haywire right now I don't have

[00:30:15] to suppress it I don't have to ignore my thoughts I can sit back consciously

[00:30:19] and look at my thoughts as they roll across the sky like clouds or leaves

[00:30:27] floating down a stream oh there's that thought that I'm inadequate again oh

[00:30:31] that thought is heavily dependent on the experiences I had growing up feeling

[00:30:38] inadequate for somebody who is really important to me never really getting

[00:30:43] that I don't want to say never because like not that bad love you dad but

[00:30:49] not getting for my mind's eye enough of that positive reinforcement or

[00:30:55] validation that constantly comes back to me but now you can recognize but now I

[00:31:01] recognize it just because you're thinking or you're feeling inadequate doesn't

[00:31:06] mean you are inadequate and I truly believe all of us who have a functioning

[00:31:11] mind feel inadequate sometimes or most of the time I would think any living

[00:31:18] person has felt that way even the caveman that never saw another human

[00:31:22] being that had nothing to relate it to was still like I'm a fucking idiot

[00:31:27] we probably caught a fish one day and it did in the next and was like fuck yeah

[00:31:31] exactly because right he's comparing himself to his earlier self right yeah

[00:31:36] it's always really got even though the day that he caught the fish may have

[00:31:40] been the day that all the salmon are spawning and they're just everywhere

[00:31:44] and then the next day there's not any fish there so it doesn't really have

[00:31:48] anything to do with him or his adequacy or inadequacy it just has to do with all

[00:31:54] these external factors so that he didn't meet his goal he works hard and he

[00:31:59] puts effort in and if he would just focus on the fact that he did that all

[00:32:03] day yeah why do we have that that's just like part of human beings that's

[00:32:08] not really and other animals they just survive we just key out to keep on

[00:32:12] pushing the limit for some reason we're the only animals that commit

[00:32:16] suicide are we really yeah there are other animals that will die to help the

[00:32:20] species survive everybody knows the example with bees protect the queen at all

[00:32:25] costs I'm a drone I'll go sting rob so that he leaves and I'll die but that's

[00:32:29] fine that's not suicide sacrificing yourself for the rest of your tribe

[00:32:34] we're also the only species I think that has this developed of a mind we

[00:32:39] have this urge this drive for whatever reason but like why do people kill

[00:32:45] themselves it's totally against our nature right it's against every species

[00:32:50] nature because the ultimate evolutionary goal is survival so why in the world

[00:32:56] would we kill ourselves that's a critical benchmark question of what

[00:33:02] makes us different or thing that we do that can help to answer what makes us

[00:33:06] different that's consciousness yeah people have killed themselves for a

[00:33:12] million different reasons but are they all related somehow what you're saying is

[00:33:18] do all the reasons have this similar thing in common this crucial component

[00:33:24] to being able to commit suicide is some sort of recognition or some sort of

[00:33:32] awareness of yourself not being how you're supposed to be when would an

[00:33:36] animal ever experience that that we know of they're just out there trying to

[00:33:41] survive if not consciousness then what is it if not the awareness that our lives

[00:33:47] could be different what in the world could it be we are the only animals that

[00:33:52] create a struggle to breathe based on our awareness of our own breath oh my

[00:33:58] gosh I'm not breathing enough I got breathe until eventually your body says

[00:34:03] alright put you on the ground takes away your consciousness yeah so that

[00:34:08] you'll restore your normal breathing again yeah keep you from dying exactly

[00:34:12] exactly yeah you know caveman stuff it seems like everything he did was cuz

[00:34:19] you're just gonna die if he didn't yes oh and actually I love that you brought

[00:34:23] that up because I always think about this and there's always been this like

[00:34:26] weird fascination for me personally for the apocalypse to happen because if

[00:34:33] we survive there's our meaning in life to survive that's what people's

[00:34:38] meaning was in the caveman days yeah hey I survived today think about how much

[00:34:44] shit we wouldn't give a fuck about if the apocalypse is coming right

[00:34:49] somebody get this guy some help

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[00:35:27] podcast and related materials are meant only to educate this information is

[00:35:29] not intended as a substitute for professional medical advice while I am

[00:35:32] a medical doctor and many of my guests have extensive medical training

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[00:35:46] consult with a medical professional licensed mental health provider or

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[00:35:51] or put more simply need help like this guy call your own doctor